Episode Description

Welcome to Ask a Pastor, a podcast from Orchard Hill Church! Have you ever had a question about the Bible, Faith, or Christianity as a whole? Submit your question and one of our pastors will answer on the program. New episodes every Wednesday.

This episode Senior Pastor, Dr. Kurt Bjorklund, talks with Director of Women's Ministry in Butler County, Kay Warheit, about being good stewards of creation, being in a situation where a spouse in at a different place in their faith, and how how to ingrain church life into your family.

Podcast Transcript

Kurt Bjorklund: Hey. Welcome. Today on Ask a Pastor, I'm joined by Kay Warheit. Kay has been a longtime part of Orchard Hill and its staff. Now she serves at our Butler County campus. Welcome, Kay.

Kay Warheit: Thank you.

Kurt Bjorklund: Glad that you are here today. So, tell us something fun that's happening in Butler County or your life, your grandkids, something that's been fun.

Kay Warheit: Always a lot of fun. Two services, and my kids are involved. My grandkids love the church. It just is such a warm feeling to be with your family in church.

Kurt Bjorklund: And you have a new grandchild.

Kay Warheit: A new granddaughter. She's three months old. Kinsley. Yeah, things are good.

Kurt Bjorklund: That's fun. That's fun. Well, I would like to say you don't look mature enough to have a grandchild-

Kay Warheit: Oh, thank you.

Kurt Bjorklund: ... but I'm not going to say anything about your experience-

Kay Warheit: About my wrinkles? Oh, okay.

Kurt Bjorklund: ... or about anything that... Yeah, I stay away from that.

Kay Warheit: Thank you. You're kind.

Kurt Bjorklund: If you're wondering where that's coming from, she just pointed out something with me that's not ideal, so I'm just letting her know that I'm, yeah.

Kay Warheit: Thank you.

Kurt Bjorklund: Anyway, that totally didn't land for anybody but you and me, Kay, so here we go. To what extent are we called to be stewards of creation? Biblically, how much should we prioritize environmental issues and animal rights?

Kay Warheit: I really like this question. I mean, if you follow the Bible, the very first two chapters are about God putting everything in place, everything from atmosphere, oxygen, our place in space to the water that only comes so far. The land, the vegetation, all these things were put in place. It's like God set the table for man to be, to arrive. He created man. There were animals that were companions. God said, "That's not enough," so he created woman and said that, "You are to be in charge of all that I've created."

Kay Warheit: I think that, as Christians, we talk about stewarding our time and our money, and our time should involve our resources. A woman very wisely said to me years ago, "Always make the most with what you have," and I think that that is your world. Even if it's just your property, your home, the vegetation, the water, what you use, recycling, I think all those things are a Christian's responsibility.

Kay Warheit: Now, the priority, then, is the question, how much of a priority should we put on it? I think in thinking about the question, the pendulum swings to one side, that we shouldn't be burning, we shouldn't use coal or gas, all these things, and the pendulum goes on the other side that, what can we do to have more meat, bigger vegetables, whatever?

Kay Warheit: I think in the middle is where Christianity should be, that we should be aware that God has blessed us with resources. We are free to use the water, the land. But on the other hand, when we make it a priority over mankind, when we're more concerned about our land, our landscaping, or our pets rather than the companion God gave us, and that is humankind, that we are to be aware of those who are hungry, those who are hurting, and make that a priority in pointing to God's glory and what he's given us. Not, "Do I have enough to eat? Am I just feeding people so that I feel good about myself?," but all these resources are here and then we want them for the next generation. We want to make sure they have clean water, we want to make sure there is healthy land, that the atmosphere... the clean air to breathe.

Kay Warheit: So, yes, we are to be stewards, but to make it a priority over mankind or caring for one another, that is too far.

Kurt Bjorklund: That becomes a problem.

Kay Warheit: Yeah.

Kurt Bjorklund: So, one of the things I heard recently is that to be environmentally friendly now requires us to not buy as many new clothes, to try to recycle clothes, to buy old clothes, used clothes. Not only that, but we should wash our clothes way less often because of the impact that washing machine and use of water has on the environment-

Kay Warheit: Detergents.

Kurt Bjorklund: ... detergents, and that we should air dry our clothes rather than use the dryers because it keeps emitting gas into the atmosphere, which contributes to global warming. So, what would you say to somebody who says, "Okay, I want to be a steward of creation but I want clean clothes and I don't want to have to hang my clothes everywhere?" How does that fit with... What I'm saying is, it's fairly... Oh, I'll let you answer that.

Kay Warheit: Well, I know this is a stretch. Part of the reason we keep buying new clothes is we eat a lot and we can't wear the same size. I think it's being environmentally friendly, not eating so much. But I do think that the next generation has made it a priority to shop secondhand, to refurbish, to re-invent what's in style, to understand clothing... I think you can't go into someone's home and tell them they can't wash too much, but I think just being aware of the detergents that are environmentally friendly... I went to lunch with a woman the other day and I didn't ask for a straw and she said, "Oh, I don't want my lips on the glass." I didn't say it, but it was, "Wait, you're using the fork and knife and the spoon that was washed in the same water."

Kay Warheit: So, I think we want to pick and choose, but I think things like plastic or... I did read where clothes do not disintegrate on a hillside, that there are two women who want to try to have bins for recycling clothes. What do you do with old socks? It's hard to recycle old socks. So, there has to be something done and maybe that is... This generation will come up with something.

Kay Warheit: But to answer your question, I don't think it's easy, but to make people aware that you don't always have to have new and to maybe find creative ways, which I think these kids are doing, to take what's old. I have found some of my old clothes and gone to the store and found they're back in style. I'm not able to button all the coats. They don't necessarily fit, but they can be kept and not immediately thrown away. I don't know. Does that answer?

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah. Well, it's a mindset where you're choosing between, is it more important to me to be always at the latest style, have new things-

Kay Warheit: And clean.

Kurt Bjorklund: ... or to care about something bigger, which could be both a materialism thing and an environmental thing.

Kay Warheit: Well, that's it.

Kurt Bjorklund: Then, certainly the washing. Personally, I'd struggle not having clean clothes. I like clean clothes more than I like new clothes. But it's good to even just ask the question, is there an alternative to some of the ways we do things? I do think there's a biblical piece of that question that says Christians are not just to say, "We use the world and discard it," but to say, "We are to manage and steward the world that God has given us." Sometimes that means making choices that are for the good of everybody rather than just our personal good.

Kurt Bjorklund: We live in a culture that has said, for so long, "Make your choices about yourself. Everyone else can figure it out." What's good about even the environmental push with something like water and washing or buying old clothes is it forces you to at least ask the question, "Am I acting just simply because I can and I have the resource to do what I want, or am I willing to put some of my preference and conveniences aside for the public good?"

Kurt Bjorklund: Certainly there's a balance there somewhere, but sometimes balance can be an easy way out, too, to just appeal to balance. So, yeah. It's a good question.

Kurt Bjorklund: This question is about a spouse, and the spouses being in a different place spiritually, and it's the man who writes. He says, "She and I are similar in that we want to believe in the whole thing, but we are not quite there yet. In my view, I'm much more accepting of the biblical story, my drive/desire to figure it out seems stronger and more open, and my wanting to attend church services is far more frequent than hers. I don't push the church thing too much, though. I realize everybody moves at their own pace, or more specifically, at God's pace of pursuing us individually. Do you have any advice or suggestions about spouses being at different places in their faith journey and possibly how does the Bible address this?"

Kay Warheit: That is hard. First, I just think it's wonderful that there is a man who wants to be a Christian husband. I just think it's such a blessing, and it is hard when you're not on the same page. But on the other hand, my advice is, how much do you know God personally? That that sounds a little arrogant, but when you know that God is omniscient, he already knows the pace that your wife needs to find or what she needs in her life. Do you know that God is provider? I don't mean just those words. Are you soaked in knowing that he knows all things? Are you soaked to knowing that he is provider? When you know those things, then you grow spiritually, yourself, and hopefully your wife will come along.

Kay Warheit: What does it say in 1 Peter 3:15, that always be prepared to give a reason or to give hope for what you believe. Are you growing? Are you prepared if your wife does have a question? Are you excited or are you... It's not about religion. It's about your relationship.

Kay Warheit: I know myself, if I go to a store and I find a bargain and I tell five people, "That's a really neat store." When I am growing spiritually, I say, "Can I just tell you... You won't believe what I found in the Bible today." I don't feel I'm pushing because I talk about all kinds of things I'm excited about. When a husband does that, the wife will hear, "Well, wait, what? What are you talking about?", and that conversation.

Kay Warheit: It's like, not all people learn to read at the same pace. Not all people become athletes at the same age, and God knows a spouse, and your wife could pass you up someday in her thirst, but just to know that God's there.

Kurt Bjorklund: Well, it's interesting that the verse you references is in 1 Peter 3, because the first part of that chapter actually addresses this situation. Now, it speaks specifically to wives rather than to husbands, maybe because often it seems that the wife might experience that-

Kay Warheit: First.

Kurt Bjorklund: Who knows if that's statistically true. But certainly anecdotally, I think I see more often women come to church without husbands than husbands without wives. But here's what this says. "Wives, in the same way, submit yourselves to your own husbands so that if any of them do not believe"... so here's your instance of not both believing... "that if any of them did not believe, that they may be won over without words, by the behavior of their wives." The emphasis here is on your demeanor, your approach, your behavior, saying, "I want to help them come to faith rather than pushing or demanding."

Kay Warheit: Which is what he didn't want to do.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, exactly. I think you know that people aren't coerced into anything. So, coercion is never effective. I think it's fine to say, "I would like it if you would come with me and experience it with me so we could talk about it. I would appreciate not going alone." Any of those things are fair, but at the end of the day, no one is coerced toward faith, and so your best option is to pray for them, to care for them, and to let them see how God is changing your heart and life, ultimately, as you look at that. What else would you say to somebody who's experiencing just not feeling like they're in the same place spiritually?

Kay Warheit: Well, I do believe that there's a lot of fellowship out there, and I know that's a Christian word, but fine. You know, iron sharpens iron and you will be amazed at maybe other men could be in a similar situation or they could be that, "My wife is dragging me," and that that company will sharpen your senses as far as praying for each other, encouraging each other, and finding... I think when we get into situations, we always feel that we're the only one. When you get with other men, specifically, in some kind of Bible study, long-term Bible study, where you grow, it's always amazing to see how it changes.

Kurt Bjorklund: So, this question is really tied to the last one, and it looks like it's from the same person. It says, again, "I'd like to be more involved with the church and have the kids grow there as well. We are at a busy stage of life, but still early enough to set things on a strong spiritual footing. I want to ingrain church more into our family dynamic so that it's more of a regular occurrence, everybody wants to do it, and I don't feel like I'm pushing it on my family. We often participate in family and volunteer events at church. Can you offer any advice that provide a gentle nudge and influence in my family without being pushy and making them not want to go at all?" So what would you say when a family has a little bit of resistance, especially the kids?

Kay Warheit: Well, I always think of my sons did not want to go to the orthodontist and I would drag them, and I made them go because I believed in it and they had to. I hated to see them get a shot for immunizations, but I made them get a shot, and there would be tears.

Kay Warheit: It's funny how we make them do things education-wise. You'll make sure your child's going to the right school. You would not think, "I'll let them decide later," and you don't feel pushy. You feel that as a parent, I have a right to do that. That's how I looked at church, and it wasn't necessarily the right fit. When it says, "Train up a child in the way they should go," not all kids are into serving or sitting down and having a lesson. Some kids are into music. But when you train up that child in the way they should go and you insist, "You're going to go to church. This is what we believe in, but you don't seem to like this. Let's find something for you, because I believe in this."

Kay Warheit: If you don't like the orthodontist, you find another one. We came here because our kids were not... It was more religion than it was understanding the grace and so to say, "Okay, we're going to make sure you have the right school, we're going to make sure you go to the right church, but you will go," and yes, you are being pushy. But again, it's not pushing religion on them.

Kurt Bjorklund: Well, it's a little different than the spouse.

Kay Warheit: Yes. Yes. You're right.

Kurt Bjorklund: The spouse... Coercion is not ultimately affected.

Kay Warheit: It's adult to adult.

Kurt Bjorklund: With kids, you do have the power of influence. You have the power of incentive. I think you're right to say, in a sense, there are a lot of things that you don't let your kids decide week to week. If you sign them up to play soccer and they, halfway through the season, say, "I don't want to go anymore," most likely what you'll do is you'll say, "Well, you're going to finish out the season, because we signed up for it."

Kurt Bjorklund: Now, there might be an occasion where you say, "This has become such a bad experience, we're not going to finish," but what you wouldn't do is let them wake up and say, "I don't feel like soccer practice today, so I'm not going to soccer practice today. I don't feel like band practice today." What you'd say is, "Well, your band's counting on you. Your team's counting on you. We're part of this. We're going to go, unless you're sick or there's some reason not to go," and you don't think twice about it and your kids get over it and after a few days of, "I don't want to go," then they assimilate into it and they're fine.

Kurt Bjorklund: The same thing happens, ultimately, with church. If you let them say, "I don't feel like getting up... Pancakes at home this morning or church?" Well, a lot of us would say "pancakes at home," but we believe in this enough as a family, this is a priority. As you do that and don't make it a negotiable when they're young, then as they get older, it's part of the fabric of the family and it's easier for them to say, "This is important. I want this in my life," just like it is with any other activity.

Kay Warheit: Well, and to be aware that every human being is born with a God-sized hole, and when we let that hole be empty until they become adults, it is... I mean, kids can be angry and say, "I never found out. I never knew. Nobody ever told me." So, to be aware that we were born with a desire for God, to lead your children to fill that hole in their soul that they're not aware of is a parent's responsibility, not... When Jesus said, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength," we leave out that soul part or we might leave out the mind. I'll let them decide when they get older, it all goes together. Just, again, God is a God of order, and these things need to be taken care of.

Kurt Bjorklund: I've probably shared this story at different times, but when I say the power of incentive, I think that that really is something parents have, especially as kids get older. The reason I say that is that was my part of my story. My parents stopped going to church when I was in middle school. They still believed in it, still thought it was important, but it wasn't part of our family culture. One of the things that happened when I was in early high school, my dad wasn't living at home and my mom... I had started to want to go to this church's youth program because there were some girls there and some stuff, and my mom incentivized it. What I mean by that is she let me stay out later at night than I was staying out at other times because I was going to this, and it was really smart on her part because what happened was part of how God got ahold of my heart was through the ministry of that church's youth ministry.

Kurt Bjorklund: What I mean when I say incentivize it is, is you really do have power, as a parent, to say, "Here's something that I would like you to do," and to help kids choose it so that it isn't coercion. It isn't just a battle. Once you do that, then you have the opportunity to give God's word, the Holy Spirit, a chance to work in your child's heart in a way that if they're not there, won't happen.

Kurt Bjorklund: If the kids are young, obviously, you just simply say, "Hey, this is what we're doing." Then they hit a certain age where it's a little harder to do that, but that's when your power of incentive does come in and you can really help direct that and make that a part of your family culture overall.

Kurt Bjorklund: So, any other words of wisdom about the child part of that or the marriage part of that?

Kay Warheit: I just, again, I just think it's wonderful when there's a father, a husband... There's just no greater blessing for a kid to have than a father who wants them to know the Lord. So, God will honor any parent.

Kay Warheit: It is a struggle. You look at other families and you think, "Look how easily they come to church." We don't know the battles that took place to get them there, but how wonderful it is to have a father ask questions. "I want my wife to know the Lord. I want us to be a family that serves God. I want my kids to grow up." I just think that's wonderful.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah. One of the things that I've been aware of and when I come physically to church... usually it's Orchard Hill Wexford... I'm in multiple services most weekends and I don't always sit with my kids. My kids are often sitting with my wife or somewhere else. But one of the things that I'm aware of is the impact of your passion about worship and taking in the word on our kids. What I mean by that is, sometimes I'll be standing there and I'll be thinking about the message or a conversation I had in the lobby, and I'll find that I'm not singing or participating in the service because I'm thinking about all I have to do, and I realize what a poor example that is for my kids if I'm not engaged.

Kurt Bjorklund: My point is this, and that is, it's one thing to say, "We get here." It's another thing to say, "When I come, I come with anticipation. I engage in the worship. I attend to and pay attention to the message. I'm invested in people's lives." Because if your kids just simply say, "Well, we got here," and that was the sum total, that won't have the same impact as when they see their mom or dad together worshiping with passion, sitting and listening and turning to scriptures and not checking their grocery list. Those kinds of things.

Kurt Bjorklund: It's funny because what I'm saying is, even as somebody who works in this industry, if you want to call it an industry, in this field, in the church, I can find myself tuning in and out and saying, "Well, I got to take care of something in my own mind," rather than I'm fully invested in the moment. I think kids pick up what is real to us as much as what we say. So, those things probably matter in this arena, as well.

Kay Warheit: If I could just add quickly, in your home, too... Some of the greatest influence in our home were other Christian men and women coming in, having dinner, and sharing their lives and our kids sitting around. We had a football coach who we were friends with, and he would come to our house with his wife, talk about his kids and their struggles. Our kids were a little bit older, but how he prayed or how he loved the Lord. And I could just see my kids. They were listening way more than if Matt and I talked. What a great influence. I was perfectly aware it was almost like church in your home. So, having other couples over, or families [crosstalk 00:22:39] your kids-

Kurt Bjorklund: Just letting them see this as part of the fabric of your life.

Kay Warheit: We're not the only ones.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah.

Kay Warheit: Yeah.

Kurt Bjorklund: Well, thank you, Kay. Thanks for being part of this today, spending part of your day here. If you have questions, you can send them to askapastor@orchardhillchurch.com.