Message Description

West Point Graduate and Vietnam War Veteran, Ken Carlson, gives a fourth of July message on the mythical wall of the separation of church and state, where it came from, and what it's impact is on religious freedom in America.

Message Notes & Study Guide

Message Transcript

Well, I don't know where you find yourself on this fourth of July weekend, it's certainly not a typical weekend is it, for the Fourth of July? And so, if you're at home watching, or in the chapel, I'm really happy you joined us on this holiday weekend, and I want to wish you a very happy Fourth of July weekend. I think most people, most Americans would say, this is a pretty important holiday. After all, we're celebrating the birth of our nation, July 4, 1776, but I think few people would say that this holiday has a lot to do with faith or religion. But of course, I take issue with that, because if you just go to the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, we are told that we have certain unalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And we're also told that those rights are endowed to us by our creator. So, I think it's quite appropriate that we celebrate this holiday in our church. And I'm thrilled and honored that I get to be a part of it.  

I'm going to try to explain in pretty good detail what it is I want to talk about today, separation of church and state. And by the way, I planned this talk a long time ago, before the pandemic hit. So, it might be somewhat more on topic because of the pandemic. And it might not, I'll let you make that decision. One of the things I think is really important is that the gospel message be preached every week in church, and of course, it is here at Orchard Hill. But I do worry a little bit because I only speak here twice a year, and it's always on patriotic occasions, and I'm a storyteller. And I tell stories about history. And I worry that some people might think that I somehow places stories or history above the message of the saving grace of Jesus Christ, which could not be further from the truth. In fact, I am acutely aware that someone like me would not get to speak were it not for the saving grace of Jesus Christ.  

Now with that in mind, what I want to talk about in detail, is what I call the metaphorical wall of the separation of church and state. I could also call it the mythical wall, so you know which direction I'm going about the wall, where it came from, what its impact is on religious freedom in America. And that's the freedom that I've gotten to speak here for many years. And that's the freedom that I've said over and over again, I believe, is our most important freedom. When I thought about this talk, and what I wanted to talk about, I immediately thought of two scriptures that I think can be adversely impacted by the fact that some people believe there really is a wall that separates church and state. So as I speak, would you please keep these two scriptures in mind, because I'm speaking for what I believe are our rights on these scriptures to talk about them, and what God leads us to do in our lives. And sometimes I think the scriptures are overlooked by the secular world.  

The first is extremely well known to Christians. It's the Great Commission. It's founded in Matthew 28:18 and following, and reads this way, "18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” 

Now, the second is not as well known, but it might be a little more germane to what we're experiencing in our world today. And it comes from Romans 12:1 and following, and reads this way, "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship." And then this is the important part of this message that I want to get across today, "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will." Please keep the scriptures in mind as I speak and just think about your ability or your comfort level when it comes to being out in society. How do you feel about those scriptures and, and speaking boldly about them? Or are you prohibited or discouraged from doing so in certain circumstances?  

Now I say this every year, and I'll say it again. The words a wall of separation between church and state is not found in the Declaration of Independence. It's not found in the Constitution. It's not found in any of the amendments to the Constitution. It never has been. And especially the first amendment, where I think they are possibly found, our most basic and strong rights. That's where they're enumerated. And it's no mistake that religion is the first one. Religion is followed by free speech, and the press, and the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for redress of grievances. Now I'll only read the religious portion of the of the First Amendment. It's very simple. It says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. That's the established cause. Congress can't establish a religion in this country. Then it says or prohibit the free exercise thereof. Congress can't keep us from exercising our religious freedoms as the Exercise Clause.  

I'm going to start the story with Thomas Jefferson. He was our third president. And although the idea of a wall of separation actually goes back much further, and I'll talk about that in a moment, he's probably best known for that phrase. Now, I have to add a little history lesson. I wouldn't be me if I didn't. Our Constitution was ratified in 1789. George Washington was elected president. And he served two terms. In fact, he's the man that set the precedent for serving only two terms until Franklin Roosevelt was elected four times. 

His Vice President for those two terms was John Adams. Now, Adams was then elected once Washington left to be president and he served one term. Now this is something interesting you might not know about but back then, no one announced they were running for president. They were above that. They did not come out and say they were running for president. They actually were a bit phony and pretended they didn't know they were running for president. They made no public statements, they did no campaigning, but they had people that were strongly promoting them. And they hired people to write very, very derogatory articles about their opponents. And there were plenty of people willing to do that. There were plenty of newspapers willing to print it all for money. 

So, for the election of 1800, we have John Adams, who's the sitting president, and Thomas Jefferson, who's the sitting vice president, who are obviously leading candidates but hadn't announced it. And political parties had formed. Adams was a federalist. Jefferson was a republican, which is a bit of a misnomer because it was really the Republican, Democrat and ultimately morphed into the Democratic Party of today.  

Now, Jefferson and Adams had been friends during the Revolutionary period. Their families were friends during the Revolutionary period 1776. But by now they had become bitter, bitter enemies. Jefferson's people, the articles they wrote, often portrayed Adams as being mentally ill. And the people that wrote articles about Jefferson, quite often were New England Christians, and they portrayed Jefferson as being an atheist. They said he'll take away your Bibles if you elect him to be president. And the other difference today that you might not be aware of which I find interesting, no one ran for Vice President. I mean, if you weren't going to announce that you were running for president, you obviously wouldn't say who was on your ticket. So, Adams didn't have a vice presidential candidate, and neither did Jefferson. What happened was the person that came in second in the presidential election became the vice president. That would make for some interesting combinations today, wouldn't it? Well, Jefferson won this very, very contentious election. In fact, it was ultimately decided by multiple votes in the House of Representatives, and Adams did not come in second, Aaron Burr did. And so, Aaron Burr became the Vice President of the United States.  

And there's just one more little historical tidbit in case you didn't see Hamilton or read the book. While Aaron Burr was the sitting Vice President of the United States, he shot and killed Alexander Hamilton during a duel. Well, after the election, Adams was so angry, he's a sitting president, he got up at 4:00 am in the morning, the day of Jefferson's inauguration, and caught a coach out of town. He was not even present for his successor’s inauguration. So, I guess we could say that politics has never been all that pretty. They just didn't have to watch it 24-seven like we have to.  

And so here we have Thomas Jefferson, as the President, and some religious groups are still concerned about him and they want to test him. And one group in particular wrote him a letter, a Baptist group, the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, wrote Thomas Jefferson a letter in 1801. They were requesting that he proclaimed a national day of fasting and thanksgiving to heal the wounds of the country, and particularly from this very divisive election. And so, Jefferson answered the letter, and I will only discuss the portion that's really pertinent to his answer. He said, "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that He owes that account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only and not opinions. I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people was declared that their legislators should, this is the exact words of the First Amendment, make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." But then, Thomas Jefferson added these famous words, "thus, building a wall of separation between church and state." Not just question, did he coin that phrase, not too much agreement by what he meant. It's been debated for over 200 years. Christians, for the most part contend it was no more than a political letter. That he was trying to appease people that thought he was an atheist and thought he was going to take everybody's Bibles away.  

But there are those from the secular world who felt that he might be attempting to rephrase the First Amendment. He might be attempting to suggest that it didn't say exactly what it said, a stricter interpretation. Now, Jefferson did show the draft to two people in his cabinet that were from New England for their political opinion, which adds credence to the fact that it was a political letter. But the Supreme Court has cited a wall of separation in more than one case, which means that adds to the debate. But it should be noted, it's still not in the Constitution. It's not in the Bill of Rights. And it's never been an amendment passed. But it still gets a lot of scrutiny, particularly from religious groups, secular groups, and history nerds like me.  

As recently as 1998, the Library of Congress was compiling 200 manuscripts and letters from the founding period. They wanted to make a display that they could show the story of religion in America. But Jefferson's letter stole the show when the director of the archives at the Library of Congress, he submitted the original letter to the FBI laboratory for document analysis to help interpret what Jefferson's original intent was. Now, I had just retired from the FBI, still had a little juice left, and so I got a copy of the letter. It was submitted to the FBI laboratory to remove the ink overlay to reveal Jefferson's first version, and his subsequent revisions. He wrote all over and changed all kinds of things. And so, the FBI was able to actually do that. And based on their findings, James Hutson, who was the director of archives at the Library of Congress, concluded that really it was nothing more than a political letter to appease Jefferson's opponents. Of course, there was strong disagreement. A spokesperson for the Americans United for the Separation of Church and State said, Hutson was simply playing into the hands of the religious right.  

So why would I choose this subject for a fourth of July message? Well, if about anything, the Fourth of July is about freedom. And I believe that I have seen for years the slow but ever-increasing erosion of religious freedom in America, certainly a respect for that religious freedom, and the people that believe in it. I think back to the two scriptures I read. Does the prevailing culture encourage you to openly spread the gospel message? Does it encourage you to not conform to the pattern of this world? Now, Steven Carter, who I quote often, wrote a book many years ago. It's called God's Name in Vain. I am using some of his thoughts, but I'm paraphrasing because I've read too many books, and I've mingled the books, and I've read his book and so many other books on this subject. It just happens to be a subject that I've actually studied for a number of years and I'm very interested in, but I did want to credit him with some of his thoughts. But make no mistake, this is my personal interpretation of the wall of the separation between church and state.  

I'd asked a question, “Do most serious Christians think that the God of the universe, at least the one that I worship, do they think that he has this isolated sphere that he lives in? Does God not possess natural boundaries?” You know, Carter says, “Religion sneaks through cracks if it creeps through half open doors, it can flow over walls if they’re built. Religion itself is an idea that is necessary only if you plan to divide the world into multiple spheres, one that is somehow related to the life lead according to the narrative about God, and then then this other sphere that you live in, was somehow related to something else and excludes God.” I don't believe the world is divided into that which God created and rules over and that which he did not create and does not rule over, because he created everything, and He's sovereign over all. The idea of a complete separation of church and state presupposes that it's possible to pick this sphere of life and confine it just to religion just because somebody said it's just religion. And so we say, religion is private, and should be kept away from politics and other aspects of our lives, as our faith does not shape what we really believe in what we really do and what we really think.  

I try to live my faith and I fail as a sinner quite often. I try to vote my faith, which isn't always easy. I use myself as an example. I'm a citizen of the United States. And as such, I think I owe my allegiance to this country. I worked for this country for 50 years, and this country has been good to me. I hope I've served it well. But my first allegiance is to the God who created me, my faith in the God of the Christian Bible, should make me a different person than if I lacked that faith. You know, although faith is a personal relationship with a living God, it doesn't require me to hide that faith does it? It's pretty clear to me when I read the sermon on the mount that Matthew 5:14 and following which reads, I shouldn't hide it. It says, "You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." So, I think my faith caused me not to be different in different situations. I have to be the same. 

We talk a lot about changed lives here at Orchard Hill Church. I've been at this church for a long time. I think this church is in the business of changing lives. And I think this church does an incredible job of changing lives. I can't imagine how many stories I've heard that warm your heart to see what has happened through the grace of Jesus Christ in coming to this church. But I ask the question, if my life has changed, then my interactions with others should be changed too, shouldn't they? That means in the marketplace, the workplace, politics, my family, and in whatever sphere of life I am, it's my faith. That should lead me. But the culture we live in today too often says, keep your religious thoughts and your ideas to yourself, or just keep them in the church.  

I recently read a point that I hadn't thought about before. Religion lives by resisting. I hadn't thought about that. But if religion lives by resisting then it dies by conforming, doesn't it? You know, Christians are not under any strict injunction to try to just fit in. The scripture I just read at the beginning, do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, you don't have to fit in. As long as our faith is able to teach those of us who call ourselves Christians, the alternative meanings of its vision of God and the Bible provide, as long as we know that. Let's add too, helps create people who form a core of dissent, and thus bring about change, positive change, changed heart, changed lives. It's no accident and in the most important social battles in our nation's history, abortion, slavery, child labor laws, many other injustices, it's no accident that the forces of justice have been led by people of faith. The idea that there's a secular public space with the notion that those there exists a sphere of life which people of faith ought not to enter, it's really a late 20th century invention. And it would have astonished the people that wrote the First Amendment of the Constitution.  

This whole idea of separation actually goes back even further. Its origins I think, are steeped in Protestant theology, as far back as the reformation, the idea that God created not one but two forms of authority, the spiritual and the temporal, each with its own legitimate powers. But the reformers believed as I do, that God was sovereign over both of these spheres and then both required to exercise power, according to God's law. Their purposes were different. Of course, the spiritual was to prepare men and women's souls for eternity for salvation. The temporal was to maintain order in the material world.  

Now, the difference today is that much of the secular world does not believe that. And let me just define what I mean by the secular world. And please, I am not broad brushing everybody in these categories, that would be unfair. It wouldn't be true. But the secular world seems to have a very strong voice from Hollywood, the entertainment industry, there are many academic at least from some of our best institutions of higher learning. There are an awful lot of what I call media, talking heads on television or on the internet who are disguised as journalists, there are also many real journalists. And there are far too many, for me, professional athletes, have been speaking out about all sorts of subjects and much of our political class. But once again, not all of them. I'm not grouping all together. But I haven't heard any of them speak up about my religious freedom when churches were closed, and things such as that. But they do have a very, very strong secular voice, because they found success or fame and they probably earned it in one arena. But for some reason, they want to tell me and others how to live my life in many other arenas. And when it comes to my religious freedom, I strongly suspect and I mean this sincerely, I strongly suspect that many of those voices that I've heard over the years, a lot recently, have never read the constitution and couldn't even tell you the five freedoms found in the first amendment, and that's sad. And so, many in our culture believe that God has no role in maintaining order in the material world and should just stay in his church.  

It might be important for me to say what I'm not advocating here today. And I'm not advocating that our government be run by a religious leader, or a religious group. That would be called a theocracy. The best example of a theocracy that I can give you in the world today would be Iran, where Ayatollah reigns supreme, and there are no freedoms. There isn't even religious freedom. That's not what I'm advocating. And, of course, I believe in our civil government. I worked for it for many years. I believe in it at least in the way it was intended to act according to the Constitution. But I still think God is sovereign over that as well.  

Now, I said it more than once here, and I checked my history - I was reading about past civilizations. Once religious freedom is taken away, the other freedoms closely follow. It is the most important one. The other thing that we need to remember as Christians and sometimes it's a little difficult for us, is that the freedoms granted in the First Amendment, the religious freedom is for all religions, not just Christians. And we need to remember that and respect that.  

Now, I did say at the beginning of this talk, that I decided to talk about the wall of separation between the church and state before the pandemic, and I did do that. But I feel compelled to at least comment on some of my concerns about freedom that have come out of the decisions made during the pandemic. In many states, I believe our own, we were told that abortion clinics, liquor stores, and marijuana sales were essential. I had a problem with that. But we were also told the church attendance if not restricted was absolutely forbidden. I had a big problem with that. I'm not a constitutional scholar. If you've heard me speak before, you know I'm not a scholar of any kind. But I take issue with that. In fact, I find it unconstitutional. I was probably pushed over the edge when I heard a governor from the nearby states say he was asked, “Do you think the restrictions that you've placed on churches is a violation of the First Amendment?” And he said, “The First Amendment is above my paygrade.” I didn't know what he meant by that. He didn't elaborate. Did that mean that he didn't know the First Amendment? Hadn't read the First Amendment? But I decided that what he really meant was he was above the First Amendment. And I watched with sadness in one of our states where people were issued citations by police, who were probably ordered to do it, while safely sitting in their cars at a safe distance in their church parking lot, trying to have a church service. You see, these actions by various government officials made me think that we were not rendering on to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, we were rendering onto Caesars, the things that are God.  

Now, I know this next example is not a real good one for church. You'll have to forgive me. It probably says something about me. It certainly dates me. But as I was writing this, as I was thinking about this, this song, kept going through my head. And so, I'm not going to sing it. I'll spare you that. This is the chorus. "You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't spit in the wind. You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger. And you don't mess around with Jim." That's an old Jim Croce song. But it made me think that maybe, just maybe, it's time for us to stand up for our religious freedoms and maybe pull on, tug on Superman's cape, whoever that might be, or even, heaven forbid, spit into the prevailing secular wind, but of course, in a peaceful and loving and kind manner, knowing what we're talking about. 

But that decision will obviously be yours, not mine. And I think that decision would hinge on what your worldview is. Now, I try really hard to operate from a Christian worldview. That's another subject that I've read deeply about over the years. Kurt really explained it well, just a couple of weeks ago, he explained what a Christian worldview is. My approach is very simple. We are created in the image of God. But because of the fall, we are sinners and that is what is wrong with the world. But God in His mercy sent His Son Jesus Christ to Earth, to die on a cross for our sins, to forgive our sins, and belief in that will grant us eternal life and freedom. You see, I think all humans have this innate desire for freedom. But until we accept the fact that God alone is the grantor of that freedom, not the government, not the other people. Until we accept the fact that God alone is the grantor of that freedom, we will never truly be free. And we won't feel strong enough to speak of it freely.  

I'd like to close this talk with a quote from Steven Carter's book, which I hope kinds of summarizes my thoughts, but I also hope it maybe challenges you to think about your freedoms that God, not man, not the government, has granted you. He says, "There's no structure, we can erect that God cannot topple. There's no physical law, we can discover that God could not change. There's no ethical argument we can design that God could not refute. There's no constitutional judgment, we can assert to evade God's exacting gaze.  

And so, with that all, I wish you a Happy Independence Day weekend and close with a prayer. Dear Heavenly Father, today as we celebrate and think of our nation's independence, may we be grateful for the ability to worship you freely, openly, and without the fear or threat of persecution. We ultimately thank you for bestowing that freedom on us as a nation and as your children. But help us to boldly use that freedom to lead others to the true freedom that can only come from knowing your son Jesus Christ, His work on the cross, and His saving grace. He is our Lord and Savior and forever we will praise and honor his name, amen.