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This episode, Dr. Kurt Bjorklund and Faith Bjorklund sit down to have a conversation about navigating this time as a family, things that have been good or bad, and more!

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Podcast Transcript

Kurt Bjorklund: Hey, welcome to Ask a Pastor. Today I'm joined by my wife Faith and we are not social distancing. We are sitting together in the same room - no zoom call here. But that's because we aren't social distancing on a whole. We're instead quarantined together with three of our boys and another young man who's living with us right now. And so, we're going to talk today just a little bit about how we navigate this time of quarantine, family proximity, and being together. And our guess is that for some people, this is really a pretty great time. In other words, you aren't having a lot of financial concerns because you're able to work from home or your income is steady, and you're actually enjoying the time of having everyone together, having dinner, and unhurried time. But our guess is also that for some people, this is really a hard time. This has maybe exposed some rifts in some relationships that are substantial, and maybe exposed some inability to talk about important things. And so, what we'd like to do today is just talk a little bit about navigating this time, especially because this time can be a real gift to families and people who live with somebody else. And it can also be a time of increased tension. And so, Faith, as you work with people from your role as a counselor, as part of the Orchard Hill Counseling Center, what have you heard people enjoy in this time, and maybe friends as well, not just people you work with, and what have you heard them say, wow, this part is really tough?

Faith Bjorklund: Yeah, I think that, like our family, what I've heard from a lot of people is, wow, we have been running at such a fast pace leading up to this. That the ability to actually be together as a family, to sit down and have dinner together every day, to get into that family rhythm instead of everybody going their separate directions with their separate activities, that's been really good. It's been really good for our family every single night to sit and have dinner together. And the conversation is sometimes good. sometimes it's meaningful, and sometimes it's snarky and ridiculous. But it's been a bonding time for our family. So, I've heard that from people. I've also heard probably what everyone's common experience of the kids are here all the time, and there's no way to get away from them. And I think in the counseling setting, I've had moms literally hiding in their closets with their doors locked, praying that they are left alone so that they can just have one hour to think and focus on some important things. I think that's been challenging for us to have so many people in our household non-stop.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah. I've said that when you go shopping or I've gone shopping and we load up our cart, people think we're hoarding but we're just trying to feed four young men and ourselves for a week. And so, yeah, the food is kind of a challenge. I heard somebody else say that they have not cooked these many meals in such a short time in years. And so yeah, the challenge just of working, eating, and being together non-stop can be a lot. So, what would you say to somebody who says I'm in an ok relationship, but I'm really getting tired of being with my family? I need a break. What wisdom or insight would you have for somebody like that?

Faith Bjorklund: Well-being is that I probably was at that breaking point, just about what three or four days ago.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, I'm asking for a friend.

Faith Bjorklund: Probably what's made the biggest difference or what is making a difference? I think I reached a crisis, a kitchen crisis, if you will, a house crisis where I felt I fell into the black hole of, I am the only person working here, I'm just cranking out constant food, constantly cleaning up, I can't keep up with the laundry, I'm still working, and everyone's at every corner of this house. And it was kind of overwhelming. So, I think the first thing that I told myself was, okay, your standards here probably need to be relaxed. You know, this is a season and the house is not going to look like maybe it could look, and the meals don't have to be the high quality that I was aiming for. I can relax my own standards first of all, and not put my standards on everybody else in the house which makes everybody miserable. A little bit of flexibility. And the second thing was what we talked about, is I needed to ask for help. I think that's very hard for me, I feel like I have to do it all and that if I have to ask for help, or, you know, get people's support that somehow reflects badly on me, and it's not true.

Kurt Bjorklund: And maybe this is a small point of tension you and I disagree a little bit about even what that means. Because I've said things like, we should have two of the boys make a meal together once a week so that there would be two meals a week that they're making, and that it's not just you or me making meals.  And you often are like, well, you know, that's okay.

Faith Bjorklund: I like the idea of it. It's the execution of the idea. It's the, hey guys, what do you think about doing this tonight and then getting the, oh my class works really ramped up tonight and I have this to do. And it's the run around. It's just exhausting. I think sometimes it's easier just to do it myself.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, yeah. But that's part of the tension for you is that you end up saying, I don't like feeling like I'm doing everything, but I don't want to ask for help because I don't want to have to be the heavy with older kids. And you know, obviously with younger kids, we're going to have a different podcast about younger kids coming up with Russ and Lindsey Brasher who have a gaggle of young children, but you know ours are older, and so it's more the kids who have been away and are coming home, or are at the end of high school and feel a lot of freedom, and normally are not home a ton. And all of a sudden, they're just home.

Faith Bjorklund: Yeah, you feel that tension, they've been on their own, and they haven't had to be responsible in the house.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, I've been to their college apartments. It's not the standard that we have.

Faith Bjorklund: Right. There's tension there like how you want to respect them as young adults, but they need to contribute. They need to be part of the team. I mean, we really do need their help, and just, you know, doing the day to day care of the family. But I still I feel that tension all the time. Every time I asked my young adult children to do something, and I get any kind of resistance. I question myself like, am I asking too much? Is this annoying? I don't like getting resistance. It's just parenting.

Kurt Bjorklund: Well, it's more fun to be the fun mom or dad who serve something nice to the kids, or does something fun, or watches a movie, than it is to say, hey, we're all going to pitch in and clean the house today.

Faith Bjorklund: Yes, I like being the fun parent. But I don't think I've been the fun parent during this quarantine.

Kurt Bjorklund: So, what about technology? How is technology in your mind? Is it a good thing or a challenge in the midst of this? And how should people try to navigate that?

Faith Bjorklund: That's related to not being the fun parent. I think I feel both ways about this. I'm grateful that my children have something to do that's really fun for them. They game together, they're boys. How many Xboxes do we have? Three? I don't know. It's ridiculous. But there's a lot of gaming. There's a lot of camaraderie that happens with it, a lot of laughter, a lot of competition, and it keeps them occupied. They've both said to me, the older ones have said like, we're so glad we have this because we would be going crazy right now. At the same time, it's addictive. It takes you away from the rest of the family. I feel when I watch them game sometimes, it has gone on for hours and I think as a parent that I feel like a failure. Shouldn't we be reading classic literature together and you know, maybe doing something a little more constructive. So, I don't feel like a good parent, but I think again, we're all in that space of what works in your family. And let's not judge each other too harshly here. I think we're all doing what works.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, well, when you're that hunkered down, it's a different time in that, especially with young adult children coming home, they do have their own rhythm and you want to respect that. And so, what's odd for us is we have you know, a couple, they're still late High School. There are some nights where they stay up what feels like half the night. In fact, there's been a few nights where I've gotten up and they were going to bed. Literally, I was getting up for the morning and they were going to bed and you're just like, okay, should I say something about this? Is this healthy? And at least for now, I've kind of taken the approach of let them make their choices. And yeah, we kind of live it. Now, you suggested the other day that we have a technology free day. How did that go?

Faith Bjorklund: That did not go well. But that was between you and me. You know, obviously, it's a weird time and I feel like I have constantly had a device connected to me in some way. I've had my iPad, I carry it around the house with me, I check the news, check Facebook, I do this and that. And I think we're all very device dependent. I don't think that's healthy. The other day after asking you the same question three times and not getting an answer, I very lovingly suggested that maybe we have a device free day. And your response was, I'm happy to spend time with you, but I'm not going to put my phone away.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah. And to be fair, that was after earlier in that morning, I had come down, sat, and tried to talk with you, and you were Facebooking and didn't give me any attention. So, I think there was a little repay, but we ended up going out for a nice walk.

Faith Bjorklund: I was probably like responding to somebody in crisis or something, you know.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, I think it was Facebook. Okay, what about spiritually and having spiritual conversations or moments in this time? You know, how does this not become just well, okay, we, once a week, sit down for an hour in front of the TV and watch a service. How do you intentionally use some of this time, not just for the family, but personally to be spiritually tuned in and then partly, how does the family take that step?

Faith Bjorklund: I think that the daily rhythm, actually, the devotionals has been helpful. All of our boys haven't joined in every night, but sometimes they do. And that's a nice ending point for the day to get our minds kind of focused on the same things. I think probably more impactful thing for our family is the conversation that happens around the dinner table. If it turns to spiritual things, and they engage and they're willing to kind of go there, hang out, and hash something around for a while - I think that's enjoyable for all of us. And I think we've tried to do that. Like I said, some dinner times are meaningful and great, and other ones are just ridiculous. So, I think as a parent, you know, it's good to be aware that we have this unique opportunity. I am sure a year from now, this is going to be a memory. And we will look back and say wasn't that incredible having six people around the table every night and having time to talk, really talk, about whatever they're concerned about, or whatever they're interested in.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, one of the things that we try to do, we don't always do it well, but is to ask spiritual questions in that context of normal conversation. That's usually been our approach to that. So just the other night, a topic came up, and we just started asking each of the kids how they processed it, what they thought about it, and how they would deal with it. And it was definitely a spiritual conversation on spiritual issues that didn't feel like devotions or Bible study, it felt like a conversation. And at least in our family, we found that to be a really good way to connect on spiritual issues is to always look for the moment. You know, if you watch a movie together, what's the worldview here? How is that different from a Biblical perspective? Why is the Biblical perspective good or right? So that you're not just missing all of the moments and the potential for deeper conversations. Because a lot of times deeper conversations come out of an abundance of time. And what I mean by that is if you just think about any relationship that you have, if you're always rushed, you don't get to the depth of conversation. But if you have an extended period of time, that's a lot of times when real deep conversations can happen. And so, in a sense, right now, it's one of those times where because time is more abundant, there's a lot of opportunity to go there, both as a whole unit and individually with people you live with.

Faith Bjorklund: I was just going to say something that I think we could do even a better job at. I think this is a really sad and scary time for our young adult kids. We have a senior and everything looks different than what we had imagined this time was going to be. And there's a lot of little griefs right now. Little things that we had planned and hoped for that are not going to happen for him. And I think sometimes we watch our kids handle these griefs kind of in the same way that we do. We don't always speak them, or talk about them, or process them. We want to stay up and we distract ourselves, and we try to stay busy, but I think it would be good for us to have intentional conversations where you just check in and say, you know, how are you feeling about that? How you doing with that? And I've done that a little bit in the last couple weeks. And just as a reminder to say like these kids are actually struggling too. They don't necessarily look like they're struggling, but they're concerned. They're tired. They're anxious. They're sad about a lot of things.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, they are. Even our senior is talking about what's college going to look like and should I continue with my plans for the fall? Or will college be potentially disrupted next fall enough that I shouldn't spend the money to go to a school that I was going to spend, do I change? Those are huge conversations he's having in his own head, and sometimes with us, because obviously I know about it, but those are big things to be present for. Well, let me switch gears here for a second Faith. What would you say to somebody who is living with somebody that they really dislike? And it's been tension for a long time, and now they find themselves quarantined, or somebody who dislikes them, maybe a kid who has been really at odds with the parent, maybe spouses or siblings that are living together that just really prefer not to be anywhere near each other. What wisdom or insight would you have?

Faith Bjorklund: That's tough. We've actually talked a little bit about that, like each other and it's certainly been annoying to have this much time together.

Kurt Bjorklund: Speak for yourself. I've loved every minute of it with you.

Faith Bjorklund: I had a dream last night, it was very vivid, that there was a big bowl of fruit salad leftover after dinner. And that in the dream, you said, hey, I want all of that fruit salad. It's for me. And in the dream, I was like, we can divide this up six ways. Why don't you get the whole bowl of fruit salad? And it just turned really ugly. And I think I was annoyed with you even this morning.

Kurt Bjorklund: You're mad at me for a dream you had. Interesting.

Faith Bjorklund: That's a COVID dream. There are limited resources. Nobody can be selfish. Sorry, what was I saying? 

Kurt Bjorklund: You're talking about people who are forced to live together in this time. And then it went to your dream of me being selfish. That is interesting. That's going to be psychoanalyzed.

Faith Bjorklund: Let's not. I can't imagine being odds with somebody in these close quarters and not having a foundation of any kind of trust or respect.

Kurt Bjorklund: So, what would you say to somebody who's right there in that? Somebody who feels like it is unsafe, not physically necessarily, but emotionally unsafe to be in this much proximity to this person.

Faith Bjorklund: Well, those are two different things, extreme annoyance and feeling emotionally unsafe. I mean, if you're feeling emotionally unsafe, I think you quarantine within the quarantine honestly. I mean, if it's an abusive relationship, I would say you need to make sure that you're connected to other people, and that you are reaching out to friends and family in what way you can, and getting your emotional support there, and then trying to protect yourself if home is not safe. Trying to protect yourself and be alone when you can be alone. Try to stay out of conflict. To stay safe, I would say, you know, don't get into highly charged one on one things that are going to escalate. Just try to make it work and extend as much grace and space as you can during this time to get through it. So that you can get to a point where you can get physically and emotionally safe again at the end of this. As far as difficulty, honestly, this time is an opportunity. If you've had little slights, little hurts, little annoyances in your marriage and with your kids, if you feel like your kids have maybe been wayward and suddenly they're forced back under your roof and forced into relationship with you, it's an opportunity to extend a lot of grace and understanding. Communicate in whatever way you can that this person matters to you, and you're willing to accept them and be in relationship with them as is, right now. You know, maybe putting former disagreements aside and things that have been painful in the past just to say, we're here now, and I'm glad to be here with you, and I'd like to make it work.

Kurt Bjorklund: Yeah, it's a hard thing because there are some situations that may not feel like there's much hope of restoration, reconciliation, and so seeking safety in that makes sense. There are other places where this time might be the last time that you really have some extended time with a child or a relative. And, it might be an opportunity to really seek to rebuild or restore the relationship in some substantial way. And so that's an opportunity that maybe is before some of us where we are currently sheltering. And certainly, we don't know how long this will go on. But it is a time that is filled with challenges. You know, just on a general level, I would say if you're in a home where overall things are good, don't hesitate though to still seek space and time for self-care. One of the things that can happen when you're pushed all together, is that you start to say, okay, I need to be ambitious and take care of projects and take care of people. And some of your rhythms, whether it's exercise, getting out for a walk, taking time to read the Bible, or getting on FaceTime with friends who aren't part of the home life, any of those things are substantial in terms of just caring for your own soul so that you are able to be present and positive when you're home.

Faith Bjorklund: Yeah, and on that too, I think this is a time to practice some acceptance of where you are personally I think that if you go on Facebook or whatever other social media, you get a lot of pictures of other families who seem to be doing this really well. You know, they've made their own musical, they've learned how to weave baskets together, they learned a dance routine, that would be really hard for our family, and you think, oh, look, they're all getting along great. They all are learning things and growing, and they're a great family. We're failures. That's really easy to do right now - to feel like you're doing it all wrong. I just think there's no doing it wrong. We're all figuring it out.

Kurt Bjorklund: I saw an article the other day, I forget where I saw it, but it was basically saying the same thing as this is not a time to say, let me up my production and my personal standards, as much as it is a time to say, let me navigate this present moment because there's so many emotions that are with it. And it's not just the concerns about COVID and where things are going, it's also just navigating time with family or work in a way that you're not used to. All of those things take energy in a way that you don't necessarily anticipate.

Faith Bjorklund: I've read in these first early weeks of the virus not put a lot of external things on yourself like I need to produce, or I need to write my book now. Focus on healthy food. Focus on connecting well with your family, with your friends, and then focus on your own physical fitness and well-being. Those four things. And I would add, as believers to keep the faith element alive every day if you can. Those five things, and you're going to be doing all right.

Kurt Bjorklund: Well, thank you for joining today. Thank you for spending part of your day with us here on Ask a Pastor. If you have questions you can always send them to askapastor@orchardhillchurch.com and we can address it in a coming episode. And also, if you're watching this on one of the social media distribution outlets, it helps other people to get these things if you subscribe, if you like, and if you make comments. All of those things are helpful. So, thank you, and have a great day.

Faith Bjorklund: And share your fruit salad.