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This episode, Dr. Kurt Bjorklund connects online with Orchard Hill Counselors Stacy Gallagher and Faith Bjorklund about having hard conversations with people during quarantine, how to approach conversations about problems that have been revealed because of quarantine, managing boundaries with parents and kids, and more!

Mentioned in the Podcast
Orchard Hill Counseling - https://www.orchardhill-counseling.com/

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Podcast Transcript

Kurt Bjorklund: Hi, welcome to Ask a Pastor. Today I am joined by two of the counselors from Orchard Hill Counseling. Stacy Gallagher, who also works as a school counselor in the area, and Faith Bjorklund, who runs the Counseling Center as well as works with people there. And today, we thought it would be helpful just to have a conversation around the issue of hard conversations during quarantine although quarantine may or may not last a lot longer, we just really don't know. Certainly, being with people 24 seven, even people that you're close to, can be challenging and can lead to some hard conversations, conversations about money, how to handle things with kids, patterns, stress, and different things like that. So really this may not have a lot to do in the end specifically with quarantine. This may have a lot more to do with just good communication principles. But we'd certainly love just to hear some wisdom from those of you who workday in and day out helping people navigate situations in life about how to navigate hard conversation.  

So, imagine with me that you have something that has bothered you, annoyed you, and been a challenge for you. And you haven't yet said anything about it. And you're trying to approach the conversation with somebody who you're living with. And you know, you've already said enough things that they are a little sensitive, so they don't want to hear another thing. So, it's not as simple as just tell them because you've already hit the quotient of how many times you can say something. How do you begin to approach that conversation? 

Stacy Gallagher: That's a tough one, especially because I feel like during these times, there are things that you maybe didn't realize like conversations that should have been had a long time ago. But now that you're forced to be in constant communication and contact with the same people 24 hours a day, seven days a week, it's becoming a little more obvious. I heard one time, this isn't my own idea, but I absorb it as my own principle. Somebody one time on the radio had said they approach it with the golden retriever approach. So, for the dog lovers, they get it, a golden retriever when they are approached by other dogs, always roll over and kind of takes the humble position and roll belly up first. And I heard him say a great way to approach a conversation with somebody that might be difficult is to say, instead of you're doing this or you're annoying if you're doing that, really do a self-check in that, you know, I really need to apologize because I haven't brought this up sooner. And I've let it just continue to cause bitterness in me. And I need to stop that. So I think that's a good way to start the conversation where you're saying, look, I was wrong for letting this get to a point where I need to have a conversation because it should have been brought up earlier. I don't know Faith. What do you think? 

Faith Bjorklund: That's really good, yeah. Another old analogy is the Oreo. Honestly, when we have a piece of negative feedback to give that we are afraid is not going to be well received, it's best to start the conversation with something positive. Say, this is what I've appreciated about you during this, and give a positive feedback first. Then say the feeling of the harder piece of it - this is something that has been bothering me, and I would really like to see if we could find a different way of doing this. And then finish with the outside of the cookie, say something sweet again, something that is positive like I really appreciate you and how hard you been working on this or that. So, something positive negative feedback, and then something positive, makes it more palatable. 

Kurt Bjorklund: So, what if the situation is such that the person, you're having the conversation with and you, really see it differently? Like, let's just take the issue of money. Let's say that you're in a relationship. And one person feels like the money's really tight and you need to really conserve. The other person says, we should support small businesses and order out once a week, twice a week, three times a week, and you really just see it differently. How do you work toward healthy resolution especially when there isn't a simple meeting in the middle? 

Faith Bjorklund: I wonder why those two people have such a different view of it. You know, if we had a financial issue, and there was a discrepancy in our thinking like that, my first inclination would be like, well, let's sit down and look at the financial realities so I can understand why you are so concerned. If I don't understand why you're concerned, it doesn't make sense to me, then we haven't done our research of sitting down together and getting on the same page. Now, if we have different values, and say you're a saver and I'm more of a spender. This is very hypothetical. Then I think it's time for a conversation about you know, what is it that we are valuing and then weighing out those values. You may value security, you may value a certain number of that you're hoping to save for, and I may value being in the present moment and creating memories with our kids. And so, then you're having a value discussion, not to devalue the other person's values, but to say, how can we come up with a solution that honors both people’s deeply held values? 

Stacey Gallagher: Yeah, that's what I was like, do you have a bug in my house? Because you literally just described my home over the past couple of weeks. Even to the point of like, oh, I want support small businesses and let's order out, but it was a little creepy how you hit the nail right on the head there. I love that concept. I work with couples. Interestingly enough, a lot of times couples that are in business together around this same issue. And so, it's whether you're running a business together or whether you're just running your household together. I love what you said Faith about sharing the knowledge of the financial situation and the plan together. I think oftentimes we run into problems. I know in my house, a lot of the weight of that falls on my husband, he pays the bills, does the taxes, manages our money, quite frankly, because he's better at it than I am. But in the same sense, I kind of know where we stand and what's going on. And I think that's really important so that you can have those conversations. All too often I've seen couples have an issue because one person is in charge of the money. And the other person is kind of feeling like it's become a parental child role. And they don't like to be parented and told what they can't spend their money on when they've earned the money, but it's a totally different situation. When the discussion comes out of, hey, we're doing these finances together. You may have one person who does the logistical management of the money but having both people in conversation about how much do we want to save, what are we saving for, what are we spending our money on, what is our budget, when that's a combined combination, then it should eliminate the discrepancy that can come whenever somebody feels like, oh, you're just being my parent telling you what to do, and that kind of backlash. 

Faith Bjorklund: I love that. I like the idea of getting on the same page, as far as a shared vision for your finances for your future. Then there's a buy in, and both people see it, and both people get it. And then it's a lot easier to even have those conversations, talk about, and share information. 

Kurt Bjorklund: Probably what makes this hard right now is you may have been on the same page, but things have changed so radically for a lot of people that all of a sudden, what was the assumption a month ago, can't be the assumption today. There's an old kind of way of thinking about this that I've always thought was helpful. And that is so often when we disagree about anything, what we do is we end up taking a position; I want to spend more money, you want to save more money. And what we need to do is get off of the position and onto the concern. What is your concern under why you're saving? What is your concern over why you want to use some money right now? And usually, if you can get to the concern, you can start to actually get to the heart of the issue, and find some common ground like I want to make sure that we have enough for the next year if it's going to be really bad, and I want to make sure that we enjoy the present moment with our with our kids and our family as we're here because we may never again have a moment like this. I don't want it to be all about the money. And all of a sudden, you start to say these two things shouldn't have to be competing. What we have to do is find a way to get both of these concerns addressed, not just the position. And if that's doable, that's really a helpful way to think about that. 

Stacy Gallagher: I think we're in a really unique situation right now too, because tied into finances is people are learning to evaluate what we need versus what we want. And really kind of examining that in your conversation, with a reduced income quite possibly for a lot of people, and for an indefinite amount of time, a reduced income. I think being in the situation with the quarantine that we are in now, that's contributed to, we don't need a lot of things. It's become a challenge in my family to how infrequently can we go to the grocery store and how far can we stretch what we bought. So, that's fun for me because I like to look, and that's a fun creative challenge for me. But I think it's really brought to light that there's a lot of things we would have been spending our money on normally right now that we don't even miss, and it's not even like we need it. So, I think it's a good time to evaluate needs versus wants right now too. 

Kurt Bjorklund: That's well put. What about somebody who has a college age, young adult age person, who's come home to live with them, who has not been living with them, and doesn't really want their input as far as how to manage their life, and yet you're thrown together consistently again, how should a parent especially go about having that conversation? And how should a young adult go about having that conversation with their parents about where they want there to be some boundaries? 

Stacy Gallagher: Well, I'll start with that. We've got a college student living at home now. Now, to her credit, she's way more responsible with her money I think than her dad and I combined. I like to think that she got the sum total of all that was good about us. But I've always been the type of parent that I value honesty and having that conversation with your college age student. I think it's okay to let a college age student kind of know like where you stand financially, and how you guys have decided to budget and finance your money. Show them where you've gone wrong, and they can learn from your mistakes. Especially, there's a piece of advice that my husband and I wish we had gotten when we were first married, and that was to learn how to live on one salary. Because had we known that information when we first got married, we would be in a much different financial situation than we are now. So, I think passing along those, I wish I knew then, kind of information to your student or to your child, eliminates the judgment piece of it. 

Kurt Bjorklund: So, I'm thinking about something maybe bigger, not just financial. What if your child doesn't even want to hear any of your, I wish I had known, and I think this would be good advice? And you're watching them make choices that you aren't sure are great for them. And now you're thrown together where you can't avoid seeing it. So, you didn't necessarily see it all the time, but now you're seeing it all the time. And you're just saying, how do I have this conversation in general, with this young adult who may or may not want to hear from me, or in this case, doesn't want to hear a whole lot from me, about any issue financial or otherwise? 

Faith Bjorklund: Do you mean like, a moral issue or a spiritual issue of an addictive behavior or something like that? 

Kurt Bjorklund: Yes, all of the above - how they treat people, or what they do with their time. 

Stacy Gallagher: That's a good one. I think, I was praying honestly, like God knows your child better than you do, and oftentimes, just praying before you have that conversation that it would be well received, that you would say your intent comes from a place of love and concern, would be communicated. I always fall back on the Holy Spirit when it's a situation where I'm like, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. 

Faith Bjorklund: If you're talking about a relationship that has been strained, or maybe a little bit distant, and now you're forced to be in the same space again, and you feel like you're maybe walking on eggshells a little bit because it feels precarious, the relationship itself, I would proceed with caution. I would say heart connection and secure the attachment first. If a child is already feeling like I am such a disappointment to you, you're always on my case, we've had these conversations 10,000 times, and I don't want to hear you, it's probably time to put that conversation on the back burner while you rebuild the relationship. And if there is an opportunity during this quarantine to do just that. And I've heard that from families even who have been a little bit more splintered, who are coming together again and finding some common ground again. If it's a behavior that is detrimental to themselves and to other people in the family, of course, I would say that means you probably need to deal with that directly. But again, I would say if you could approach it with not anger, condemnation, or threats, and say we're so thankful for this time with you. All this time together, we have seen some things that we've been concerned about in the past and they're still here. Can we have a conversation about this and what this is doing in your life, and how this is impacting the people around you? And just know that we are for you, and we love you. And we actually want to have this conversation because we feel like if you could pay some attention to this, and maybe make some changes, that it would make your life better. Keep it focused on them, their thriving, and their health. Take the parent piece out of it, you know, the I'm disappointed, or all of the guilt that you've probably thrown at them over the years for making bad choices. And if you can table that and go with, we just love you, we want you to thrive, and this seems to be getting in the way for you. Can we talk about it?  

Stacy Gallagher: I like that. I think a practical tool that parents could use is asking questions with the intent of understanding. I think that's a great place to kind of start that conversation that both rebuilds the heart connection that you were starting to talk about, and also eliminates the defensiveness that you might be receiving when you're trying to have a conversation. Like, if you start out with, I just really want to understand where you are, where you want to go, and understand that I'm for you, and I want you to get that, and I don't think that what you're doing now is going to help you. As long as you guys can get on the same page, you're both working towards the same goal, make that understanding foundational, and that can start by just asking questions to try to understand your child better. 

Faith Bjorklund: And with that, I was just going to say, along the same lines, and asking questions and going into that conversation like Stacy said, with I want to understand my child better, and I want to understand what's important to them. And even if they're older and more distant, approach the conversation and say, I just want to know you better, I want to know what's important to you, what's motivating you, if you have any goals, and what they are. And that doesn't have to be lined up with my goals for you necessarily, but I just want to know and accept you where you are right now. That's pretty powerful. It's really hard for parents. 

Kurt Bjorklund: And it's hard if there has already been damage in the relationship too.  

Faith Bjorklund: That's such a good thought that if there has been damaged in the relationship and you know as the parent that you are responsible for some of that damage and distance, what an opportunity to say, I'm so glad you're here at my kitchen table this morning. This gives me an opportunity to say some things that I haven't had the opportunity to say. And that is, I'm really aware that some things that I've done have been hurtful to you. And I'm really open to knowing even more from you, like how have I hurt you? Beyond that, are there ways that I'm not even aware of? Because I'm really open to hearing that. 

Kurt Bjorklund: This time really can be a gift to families where there's been some distance because all of a sudden, you have this extended period of time that you may never get again, to live under the same roof with some of your adult children or college age kids, and certainly not with this much endless time. And so, it's something to really take stock of and say how can I maximize reestablishing that connection? All right, we have just a couple minutes left. So, let me ask you each just one last question. And I'll direct each question. So about 30 seconds or so each. And so, Faith I'll start with you and then come to Stacy. Faith, how would you try to help set a spiritual tone in your home during this time? Like what are some things that parents can do so that the time doesn't just become we eat, we game, and we watch movies? 

Faith Bjorklund: Music is important in our family, and it sets the atmosphere. And even though I probably listened to more praise and worship music than anybody in the family, I like to inflict it on our family as often as I can. Create more of a God-centered worshipful atmosphere. But if I don't want to annoy my kids, along with that, I would say worship opportunities, nightly devotionals, watching the service together on the weekend, talking about it, and having dinner table conversations. Something I haven't done, but I've thought of, is taking this opportunity to say, how can I be praying for you? What are you guys concerned about right now? 

Kurt Bjorklund: Okay, Stacy, what about for a couple who has kids living with them and so many of them that they never have space or time it feels to kind of connect with each other, apart from their kids? What wisdom or words of advice would you give to a couple who might say you know, this is great with our kids, but we're just not getting any time? 

Stacy Gallagher: I would say that needs to be creative and intentional, depending on the age of your kids. I mean, we've been talking about families with older kids so they can stay outside a room with a door closed for a little bit of time so that you're just focused in on each other. Find something that you guys enjoy doing together. I know there's debate about whether you should be even going outside in your neighborhood for a walk or not. But you know, spending some time maybe even taking a walk together is a phenomenal way to connect. You can hold hands, there's physical connection, and you can have conversation. If you have younger kids, they go to bed at some point, so if you can work it out to stay up just a little bit longer than your kids, if you can outlast them, then you outwit with them. But I think being intentional, being creative, and not just letting it become habit that we get on this treadmill and forget about each other. Leave notes for each other. Writing a letter to each other is really great so then you don't even have to have the time face to face when one's with another person. But it's kind of just like expressing your heart and keeping that heart connection. Praying together is a great way to stay connected. Praying for each other. I like what Faith said, do that with your spouse, as well as you're doing it with your kids. But carving out, setting aside time to just be alone while your kids are otherwise occupied or asleep, making your intentions to do that, and be creative with your in-house date nights. 

Kurt Bjorklund: Okay, well, we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you, Stacey. Thank you, Faith for joining us. Thank you for spending part of your day with us on Ask a Pastor. Please send any questions you have to askapastor@orchardhillchurch.com and we'll be happy to try to address them in coming episodes, hopefully non-zoom episodes at some point. But for now, zoom is our medium. It's been good to be together. Have a great day!